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Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
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Posted - 2012.08.19 15:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
I feel bad for anyone else to attempting to breathe live back into the Amarr. Definitely give props to everyone who stuck it out so long and the people that are still there. It was a fun ride. :)
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
276
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Posted - 2012.08.19 16:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Yay a FW thread.
Alas, not my problem anymore. Enjoy your warzone.
Edit, would like to say, of those minnies that came to fight in something other then dessis. Thank you for the pew pew. It was a blast fighting you guys. Good fight, and so long.
+1
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
277
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Posted - 2012.08.20 07:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Muad 'dib wrote:
how long will that last?
my corp is top for pvp kills for years, and now more than ever, but guess what, fighting mwd frigs with no guns sucks.
Whilst I sympathise with your cause, I still wonder what happened to Amarr milita. If your corp is the top killing corp for years, I wonder why the top non-NPC corp according to Amarr miltia KB stats would still be Absinthe Brothers (Consortium), who are dead for 1-2 years (Yeah - according to the list, ARETR would come out on top, but absinthe are on that list twice and just had to reform at some point for whatever reason, so their kills need to be added up). When I pulled my alt out about 2-3 years ago, minmatar was getting faceraped on a daily basis despite having the bigger numbers, so WTF happned?
Thats not really the most accurate killboard in terms of current groups.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
278
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Posted - 2012.08.20 08:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
David Devant wrote:I'm going to make a controversial point because I think it might be constructive.
The Amarr militia has no good FCs. By that. I mean it has no one who will ball up 20 or so cross militia pilots and throw them around. Individual corps are happy to play, but no one will take a lead like Neph or BSC used to.
If TMFED pulled their fingers out *ahem* they would be more than capable of fulfilling this role, but it would probably require them flying ships like plain old bingers and canes to its a no go.
The Amarr militia needs some leadership. I hope it gets it soon...
Our alliance was constantly running public fleets whenever we had FCs on. There was pretty much always a 20-30 man fleet going on US TZ and we ran EU TZ fleets when we had the FC's online. There was a few weeks where we had 13 hour long pickup fleets. Unfortunately, pulling people into fleets to fly around PVPing does little to control the warzone and any attempts at running plexing fleets usually never lasted more than hour before people got bored.
So many people are quick to judge the Amarr for not working together and coordinating, but the truth is we did a lot more coordinating and working together than people realized. There were many times I would look at how many people we had in fleet compared to how many members WBR had online and many times we had roughly a third of our militia in fleet with the other third of the active pilots being WBR and the other third being AFK/randoms.
Though, these were also times where we only had 90 in militia chat compared to the 220 or so that the Minmatar had.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
278
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Posted - 2012.08.20 08:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:Alaxander Row wrote:Mentlegen I would like to put my 2 cents in here. As the hilarity continues and the swine continue to lay blameless and point at another like apes flinging there own excrement Fate may have left FW but we have far from left the area as those who must adapt to the times we have adapted our goals were never FW Control but PVP and FW gave US a means to reach our goals. Willing to work with those around us but hesitant of those who have proven their worth on the battlefield . We are still here adapting and having fun shooting things last night was funny when there were 200 minmatar on and 70 amarr on and half of the amarr was Fate. Not gonna lie I thought it was funny and proceeded to kill anything that moved. Our goal was never to take control or be some grand stand for the ammarian empire for that is not the way of the potato or the fastest way to enjoy cream. We simply wanted to kill everything and in true pirate style (trigun is a pirate troll corp afterall) we decided to kill Anything that moved so you joined a side in a war instead of being true pirates? makes sense in a dumbsh*t propeller hat wearing sort of way i suppose
Maybe because they were in FW prior to Inferno? I'm not sure why people keep hating on Lost Obsession bros for not being this crazy savior that they never had any intention to be or stated they would be. Its like being mad at Nulli Secunda for not moving to FW permanently.
In all honesty, Lost Obsession helped a lot more than people are willing to give them credit for.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
283
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Posted - 2012.08.20 14:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69 wrote:FIRST GENERAL wrote:Generally we are and were nonchalent as you put it very well towards FW, how could we be anything else considering how broken the mechanics were and still are. (I'm presuming we agree that FW mechanics are still broken, regardless of the undeniable truth that Inferno brought a lot of activity back into the area). Yes the mechanics are a disaster, while the millions of plexing alts do help us in the sov war, its of course not something I would have chosen, they are probably almost as much of a pain to us as you. I hope soon(TM) CCP will realise the disaster that as Inferno and give us a sensible FW system back All my post was trying to say was through all of this we have lost some (real) targets to shoot, but I don't think that is entirely down to our poor WT managing (which was a consideration). In simplest terms from my point of view: it wasn't worth trying to keep a place for you in FW (READ - through letting up on the boring stuff and working to keep it fun, NOT - OMG we can could kick you out whenever we want with our L33t PvP) when FW seemed to be a secondary concern for you at the time. Why go to the effort when it wasn't yielding the GFs for us at the time. Of course I'm sure Kourmonen the other night reminds us why we joined FW and why we would be sad to lose you, which is oddly nothing to do with FW and if CCP are to be believed the opposite of what they want from it (e.g. no caps). Of course I hope fights like that will continue to happen regardless of who is in FW. I am gutted to have missed it. Inferno should have focused on fights like that rather than rifters.
I think the biggest issue is the tiering of the rewards and how they scale. When theres a wave of immersion killing realization across your militia that you would be stupid not to farm Tier 5 while you can, versus going out of your way to push tier 2-3 at best on your own side, its hard for your side to keep taking FW seriously. It definitely kills a lot of the PVP immersion and makes things feel very RvB-esque. I hope Agony is able to keep fighting the good fight, but I have the feeling they too will hit an inevitable point of realization that they're sitting on a goldmine with a finite timeline (winter patch).
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
Moar Tears
284
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Posted - 2012.08.20 16:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Vordak Kallager wrote:Lord BryanII wrote:If Minimatar did not have their geography advantage and did not get that super boost that they did from the goons, would it be fair to say that the Amarr/Minimatar war would be much closer than it is now? If the answer is yes, then would we still be talking about farmers as much as we are now?
I don't think farmers are the issue tbh The Geography is an issue, but it is not insurmountable. As was clearly demonstrated, Nulli moved into Metro and quickly conquered the vast majority of it. It just takes some dedication to make the move and commit. There aren't a lot of Amarr groups who are interested in doing that. Goons did nothing except take advantage of existing circumstances in order to make a lot of money and subsequently get it confiscated by CCP.  Geography is not really an issue. The goon boost was not the issue. The main problem is that it is a pve/farm mechanic. Where you win by hiding from the enemy while you do plexes. This is 90% of the problem. Secondary problems that take up the other 10% of the problem were: 1) The imbalance in rats especially before the ewar removal. Minmatar was always the race with the easiest rats for missions and plexes. This helped them get more players and helped the plex directly. amarr was fw on hard mode Minmatar was easy mode. Don't believe just trying each sides missions (the main source of fw income before inferno) solo in a stealth bomber. They had a huge lead going into inferno. This was in part due to the extreme rat imbalance. Do you want to make easy isk doing missions or do you want it to be hard? If you wanted it easy then you joined minmatar and many people did. They would either leave amarr for minmatar or go over to caldari. Amarr has always been the the miltiia with the fewest numbers and its no mystery why. 2) It was also just more or less arbitrary luck. There were probably about 10 players total who were really plexing for the year before inferno was announced because it was meant nothing. A single minmatar player had more vp than any minmatar corp or alliance going into inferno. No one really cared about it. The product of a system no one cares about is random. 3) In combination with the above Amarr took the biggest hit it ever took, due to the station lock outs. Basically vets had to spend all of our time leading up to inferno moving our stuff out of the warzone. Inferno brought on a change that meant it took 5xs as much plexing to flip a system. So this lead up time was important. Most of the fw vets like myself had billions in assets thoughout the metro and we had to spend what ever eve time we had moving it. In combination with 1 and 2 the lockouts was the biggest difficulty the amarr ever had to deal with. Once everyone saw Minmatar could hit tier 5 well everyone started getting alts to run the plexes. The sheer volume of alts is not something amarr can touch.
The problem is was that there was always tons of interlinking factors that you can't really simplify into a single issue. For example, Metro's geography is terrible, leading to to multiple issues being that historically most fighting has taken place in Amarr/Minmatar so any reason to base out of there would purely end up in PVE with little PVP in addition to it being extremely easily defensible and cut off from the warzone with multiple dead end pipes.
The problem is, prior to Inferno, many things in FW that had an impact on the ability to push warzone control post-Inferno were never really destruction tested in any meaningful way since no one cared. I would argue that there are probably certain situations that could end up be potentially morale crushing for the Minmatar in the same way that the Amarr are facing now, but whether or not we'll ever experience those to identify them as being an issue is something to be seen.
People need to get over themselves and focus on the future rather than focus on the past and current state of things. The Minmatar need to realize that among the Amarr's complaints there are many valid points and the Amarr need to get over the fact that the Minmatar put themselves in a great position pre-Inferno that they've done an excellent job of maintaining.
We've got little time left before the Winter expansion hits, which will probably be our last iteration regarding FW mechanics. I think we have enough historical data and have spent enough time discussion whats wrong. Its time to move the conversation onto how to fix things.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
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